FAMILY HISTORY & RESOURCES CENTRE ~ inside the our local Folk History Museum, founded by Merrill & Peter Rhodes 20 years ago ~ The Old School in Church Street ~ Sutton on Hull ~ HU7 4TL .. our historic area also covers Stoneferry, Wilmington, St Marks & The Groves. Perhaps we should have called it The Merrill Museum, it would have been very appropriate
Commonwealth War Graves ~ churchyard open every day; Museum is OPEN EVERY FRIDAY  ~ 10 till 2 ~ 25 Church St, Sutton on Hull ~ HU7 4TL it's nearly 10 inside The Old School ... time to open up!
We are not always what we think we are ...

   Armistice Centenary Weekend - flying the flag Did you visit or play down here? This is in 1906. Was this your old school? ~ ancient  villages  linked  by  their  shared  history ~ Did you go to the seaside this way? Is this your home village?
Our Old Village Schools in 1911
   Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies ~ Armistice   Day   Centenary   2018   ~ Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies Armistice Centenary Weekend : photo - Simon Davies

-->
~ Open again FRIDAY 23 November, If you've ever passed by and wondered just what is inside our Old School Museum, why not pop in ... Bring the Grandkids ~~~ Our Armistice Centenary Exhibition is still open, runs till December ~~~ Family History Research done here EVERY FRIDAY - no appointment needed, just bring the details you already have, and if possible, a memory stick to save them to ... .... ....
2 school photos above:
historic postcards of 1910



view Side Menu on the left if not already visible, for a lot more button links
for tablet browsers, dump the Side Menu

Do feel free to leave a message ..
.. there's a lot of family names
and contacts already in there.
Why not add yours too .. ?
Do feel free to leave us a message in our Guestbook; see entries from all over the world

we deploy a ramp for diabled access into the Old School - do shout or bang door to ask us for assistance      free Wi-Fi inside the Old School - access code pinned up in tearoom over serving hatch
Founded by Merrill Rhodes, and husband Peter,
we are a local Folk Museum & Family History Centre
inside this Grade II listed school building of 1859;
the oldest former council school in Hull
still used for educational purposes:
staffed entirely by Volunteers and
supported by visitor donations;

A SPECIAL WELCOME TO
OUR OVERSEAS VISITORS


Press F11 to view this site Full Screen
- without toolbars!
You can now also drag the menu
out of the way to the left.

You Can Click here to
enter Our Old School


. . . has anyone seen our ... little mouse!

Did you like our first image? ... here it is again


A Map to Find Us at HU7 4TL
we're the next building to the right of the marker ! The little dead-end side road is in fact a car park !

Our area covers the historic parishes of both
Sutton and Wawne: Sutton parish also included
Stoneferry, Wilmington, St Marks and The Groves,
all the way down to the north side of Witham.
Up until the 1880s when new churches were built.

WE OFFER FREE
FAMILY HISTORY RESEARCH

every Friday 10 till 2
not just Sutton & Wawne;
ALL areas of the UK !


Wawne Primary School old school blazer badge - leads to School Visits Page

The Sutton War Memorial
has updates to spellings and forenames
of the now 238 men never previously
remembered on our memorials.
This is the final total, all now inscribed
onto the previously blank granite plaques.

We can take a photo of your child for you
in our re-creation of a Victorian School photo ?
We can supply child's cap or other props - have 2 photos, one smiling, one serious!

Click these Chalkboards for More Details!


WE FIND CENSUS RECORDS;
regiments & squadrons;

ships RN & MN;
troopers & convoys;
lost trawlers, etc

St James' Church of England School, Sutton on Hull - the boys' cap badge


A map showing the relative
positions of our ancient villages is
Here




We are proud to have been supported so far by:
several local schools and
Sutton in Holderness Conservation Society
and many, many individual and
very generous donors.



A full list of all our existing
Friends and Supporters
appears on our Friends Page


Sutton & Wawne DVD-ROM Online




We can also be found on
Google+

Click HERE to see How To Use our Slate Tablets . . .


which leads to our 'Friends Page' . .



G.D.P.R. Data Protection and What we do

our website is hosted by Free Virtual Servers

Click Me ... I dare you
School Visits from All Schools very Welcome;
if you can get here, we'll entertain you !

We can also host arranged visits by
Church Groups, WIs, Townswomens' Guilds, etc.

Click the railway station sign
to see our restored station seat


You can contact us at:
admin@suttonandwawnemuseum.org.uk

view our FACEBOOK page

Museum & Family History Research on Fridays in the Old School Rooms, a marvellous display of life in Sutton and Wawne in times past; much more to see when 				you visit .. Incredible list of resources. Use also with FAMILY HISTORY button below ... Wawne Village, links to church, Village Hall and history Family History enquiries and list of resources for St James', & St Peters's, Wawne ; Resources list as of 10 May 2011 .. Use also with OLD SCHOOL button above 				.. dozens of links to military history, both local,national and military, including both World Wars, all armed services, and more send an EMAIL to us direct to the volunteers at the Sutton & Wawne Museum Local Photos & Images of Sutton & Wawne St James Churchyard - a full list of graves and memorials Sutton War Memorial .. photos of each war grave now added, Nov 2009 Wawne War Memorial
This website, and all its associated pages, is brought to you by the Sutton & Wawne Museum, a Free Museum inside the Old School, Sutton on Hull.
Sutton & Wawne Museum ~ inside The Old School ~ 25 Church St ~ Sutton on Hull ~ HU7 4TL ~~ www.suttonandwawnemuseum.org.uk ~~ admin@suttonandwawnemuseum.org.uk





WELCOME TO OUR WEB SITE

A very warm welcome to all our visitors,
and especially to all those
ex-Sutton & Wawne folk who
may have long since left these 'gentle climes'
for other abodes in the far corners of this globe.

White Roses ... for Yorkshire White Roses ... for Yorkshire
With special greetings for those of you now settled
in South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand,
the USA, and anywhere within our Commonwealth and
this great world-wide family of English-speaking peoples.

For all of you who were born and worshipped,
were married here in Sutton or Wawne,
or have loved ones resting here -
to you all, wherever in the world you live now,
an especially warm welcome indeed.
We're pleased you have discovered us -
do enjoy.

If you click the music button, near the bottom of the Menu Bar
on the left, you can hear a short peal of Sutton's bells.
They were added at Christmas, 2003.

Photos of all 14 CWGC War Graves in St James' churchyard
are now posted on the appropriate page.
This was finally fulfilled in time for Armistice Day, 2009.
Photos of the 5 Family Graves and Memorials
were added in time for Armistice Day 2014.

If you happen to be viewing from 'somewhere warm'
and miss the freshness of Sutton in former years ago,
perhaps you'd like to see our Little Slideshow
. . . or a couple of tiny bits of video of Sutton Churchyard,
now working again at the very end of the Photos Page.

At the last count, this website comprises about 70 pages
of assorted content, from serious history to local events,
plus a few items in a 'more light-hearted' vein,
as well as containing over 500 images.
Folk from the general Hull area may
well find these pages of interest.

May you all enjoy your visit
and brief stay with us.
We hope you will call again.
And of course, if you have a Family History
query we can help with . . . we're here to help !

For more information on how to access the various archives and sources
on this website, please visit what used to be our original Home Page where
there are several buttons and also a map explaining our location and area,
plus an explanation about The Groves, Wilmington and the former Sutton parish area.








PRESENTATIONS - TALKS - SPEAKERS
for Clubs and Societies

To further the finances of our museum, we have two speakers for hire
to talk to your society or interest group.
All proceeds from talks benefit the upkeep of this museum - no expenses ever deducted!

Five presentation subjects are available; all within the wider realm of history.
  1. The Air Defences of Hull During both World Wars - by Simon
  2. Posters & Poster Art - from both World Wars - by Simon
  3. Hull's Incredible Untold Story of WWII - by Dennis Chapman
  4. Demolished buildings of Old Hull from the Sam Allon Collection - by Rob
  5. Family History and Old Maps from the Internet - by Rob
  6. Family Photos and their Digital Restoration - either as PSP tutorial, or general interest - by Rob
Available most weekday evenings; daytime Weds & Thurs only

A projector / screen / laptop / leads, can be provided; only your mains power required.

A Wi-Fi connection is useful for the Internet maps talk.

See a list of Groups and Societies that have already supported us
for which we have already given talks and presentations.

please email for details










An Overview for Visitors
explaining this background map

~ the full screen map can be seen
if you scroll right to the end of this page


Here in Sutton on Hull, at the Sutton and Wawne Museum,
we were also anciently known as Sutton in Holderness.
We're just down the road from St James' Parish Church,
from which this old church school takes its name.
St James', in Sutton, was a daughter church of St Peter's at Wawne,
formerly known as Waghen, and now pronounced 'Worn'.
Both villages have War Memorials. We receive school class visits,
research Genealogy and Family History for our Friday visitors,
all linked in to a more general Yorkshire and British Social History.
Click to go to the end Click to go to the end

The Groves or The Growths
and other areas 'in between'

This month's stylised background map is of a very complicated area known as "The Groves". Complicated because this used to be the southern extent of St James' parish in Sutton, until 1887, and had been so since medieval times. Complicated because we are almost 3 miles from St James' church down here, a considerable distance, and there were two other districts to the north of this map, Wilmington and Stoneferry, which also fell within this greater area of the original parish. Complicated because few family history resources online mention "The Groves" or where they were. Complicated because explaining 'what it was' and then 'what it became' in Victorian times bears very little resemblance to 'what it is' now. In colouring this map with pastel tints, we'll make an effort in explaining it all. The background here is very faded, deliberately so by design, but the real map is on a link right at the bottom of this article and opens in a new tab in your browser, with tips on how to see it full screen.

Notable features and landmarks have been picked out in deeper colour. The lilac shades, to the west of the River Hull, and to the east of Dansom Lane to the right of the map, can be discounted for our purposes. Our area of concern is that pale yellow area in the centre, which stretches right down to Witham, the road we can see with it's tramway picked out in light red and which continues north-east as Holderness Road, now the A165 to Bridlington if you're comparing with a modern map.

Running north from the bottom of the map, in light brown or fawn, is Cleveland Street, and to the east, another waterway picked out like the river in light blue is a major drain, the Foredyke Stream. The deep purple factory area is "The Blue Works," or "The Starch Works" as they sometimes appear on the census sheets, which all locals would recognise as Reckitt's & Sons in the day, famous manufacturers of laundry products for bleaching and whitening shirts, collars, slips, underwear and bed linen - in the main. The former Dansom Lane recreation ground is shown in light green, where the stump of an old flour mill, as well as the rusting boiler and wheels of an ancient steam engine, could be seen until well into the 1970s on the children's playground.

The 'new' church of St Mark's, which gave the area its name, and the consecration of which saw the start of the break up and contraction of Sutton's parish, is clearly marked in red. The associated church schools are just behind. A little to the east is the gas works, the gas holders delineated here in blue. The full title of the area became "St Mark's in The Groves", a sort of acknowledging nod to the fact that The Groves was a named area long before. It took its name from being a very wet area, of marsh and reedy 'growths', which flooded constantly and especially in winter, until the River Hull was more or less tamed with higher banks and the land could be dried out enough to build residential areas on it. I say 'more or less' - for the river still used to overflow at North Bridge on high spring tides right up to the 1950s and flood all down Witham and into the basement flats of all the old Victorian houses down there long before it became the street of car showrooms and warehouses it is today.

Increasing industrialisation along the River Hull, with ever more mills of various types, both flour and seed crushing, would see the need for new housing, and the two developed hand in hand in the last two or three decades of the 19th century. Indeed, the very building of those mills also helped to raise the river bank and control the seasonal flooding to a great extent, and so the area dried out enough to build more terraced streets. This map is dated 1910, by which time all the free areas that could be built upon were. And indeed, they were built upon in what we might call now, close harmony. Densely packed housing, back-to-back, tiny terraces with communal yards and lavatories, and one fresh water tap serving several properties in those very early ones. The terraces, dozens of them, look like little side streets off the main street on the map, and for pedestrians they were. Just narrow footpaths, too small to get a horse and cart along, each house perhaps with a very tiny 'front garden' bounded by a low brick wall of two or three courses topped by iron railings - if they were lucky. Hull folk know exactly what was meant by a 'terrace', and it has a greatly different meaning to the same term used in other cities. Along with the regular flooding and nearby stench of industry, these dwellings were unfit for human habitation and obsolete before their roof tiles were put on!

The area coloured in an even deeper yellow is worthy of note. Still "The Groves", this was Lime Street and included the little streets that led off at the northern end. Lime Street was previously a very wet and muddy lane, that predated the 'new Cleveland Street', and was the original track that led north roughly following the course of the river to Stoneferry. Up to the time of Queen Victoria's coronation, that was the way to walk to Sutton - if it was passable - and it is worth noting that when a walker did arrive in Stoneferry at 'The Green', he was only halfway to Sutton village. Such was the size of this huge parish. Those little streets were named after famous English admirals, so we have Nelson, Duncan, Jarvis, Howe, Sidney and Hood Streets. All gone now, all buried under factories and yards as if they never were. There were a few houses in Lime Street itself, short stretches of terrace of a few houses, and these crop up on the census sheets leaving folks puzzled as to exactly where they were. There were enough families here to warrant a school, also marked in a deeper colour. This is the school at which Lt. Jack (John) Harrison VC MC taught as a young man, attending teaching college in York, and whose memorial Victoria Cross centenial paving plaque we now host in the war memorial garden in Sutton.

The map is so densely packed with detail it is all but unreadable, (there's a link below to a clearer copy for your perusal) which in some way is appropriate in that the dwellings were likewise so packed together it is hard to see how folks lived in them, brought up families, some of which went on to do quite well in the world. There was great poverty here, terrible deprivation, and yet children went to school and thrived and went out into the world of work and raised their own families. A lot of Hull folk today, now well into their 70s, 80s and more, as well as many dispersed around the world, can still remember growing up in these areas until many were demolised in the 1950s. Most were gone by the 60s, and all just about all gone by the 1970s with the exception of about three streets which still have long rows of terraced housing interspersed with industrial and business premises, now improved with all mod cons and almost unrecognisable to when they were built.

The church of St Mark's, here marked in red, locates the street that takes its name, St Mark's Street, running roughly east to west across the middle of the map. The extension to the west, leading to a bridge over the River Hull, is Jenning Street, names that are just about readable. For strangers to Hull, as a guide to the other street names, below that, in order, we have Musgrave, Egton, Hodgson and Spyvee Streets. To the north of St Mark's, we have Sitwell Street, and Cheapside, and right at the top running to another bridge over the river is Chapman Street. Near the bottom, as a continuation of Spyvee Street, there is Pemberton Street, running through to Dansom Lane, that being the eastern boundary of the ancient Sutton parish here. There are several other little streets, unreadable here, but Whitby, Redcar and Holborn Streets come to mind.

Several old timers, only a decade older than me, can recall strapping oil barrels and wooden planks together and rafting, and swimming and fishing, in the deep and putrid industrialised waters of the Foredyke Stream that ran behind many terraces. I doubt if many fish could be caught, but the waters were deadly to any young boy who fell in who was short on swimming skills. Indeed, there was one long terrace of houses that fronted onto the stream itself, off Pemberton Street. Some stream! It was nothing less than a deep and deadly drainage dyke, and deadly not just on account of the depth of water - it was certainly no 'stream'. The level of the stream dropped twice daily with the outgoing tide, leaving sloping banks of glutinous mud, imbibed with animal filth from the streets as well as chemical and industrial waste and the by-products of fertiliser manufactured from fish meal amongst other things.


THE FIRST WORLD WAR

These narrow and cramped former areas have been much in my mind of late, as I plough through our now final list of the 224 men of this area, soldiers and some sailors of The Great War. Men whose names never made it onto their own war memorials. Or those that did have long since disappeared with the ravages of time. This is the list compiled over five years of diligent research by Terry Keal, former city councillor for the Sutton ward, and now finalised to a fixed number of names which have now been added to our war memorial in Sutton. And now you will realise the reason for the added poppies on this background map. It is highly appropriate that the engraving work for all the names, including these 224 extra men, has been done by a local stonemason company, Oddlings of Hull, in their yard on Cleveland Street, right in the very heart of this area that witnessed so much tragedy and so many tears. I swear that, as I research more and more, I realise that the tears shed here alone, over a period of four or five years, could verily have filled that Foredyke Stream all by themselves.

These areas, St Mark's, Wilmington and Stoneferry, did have their own cast iron war memorial plaques affixed to their own church walls. When those churches were demolished as part of the slum clearances, starting with St Mark's in the late 1950s (badly damaged in the Blitz in the Second War anyway), their plaques were first stored away in council vaults, then it was decided to take them to Sutton, as this was their former parish going back to medieval times. There was thought to be nowhere else suitable for them, but as it turns out, the choice was very appropriate and more than fitting. What do you do with carefully cast iron wall plaques containing the names of dozens of dead soldiers and sailors, other than to return them to their roots, the original place of worship where many of their parents and grandparents were married or baptised.

The original intention was to add the names of both those plaques - some 146 in total - to the new granite scrolls recently fitted in 2014 at Sutton in time for the 1918 Centenary. All went awry when research found as many again and more - 224 - that also need to be added if we are going to be just and fair, and to keep that promise made a century ago - 'Their Names Will Liveth For Ever More". In perpetuity, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission says, and so do we. Men that were missed off for a variety of reasons, much of which is explained elsewhere on these pages, but which we now intend to honour along with their neighbours and comrades, many of who were brothers, sons and many, many cousins. A full century is a long while to take to put the record straight, and was not possible before the wonders of the internet. But that is exactly what we intend to do, and only right that we do so.

It is heartbreaking to wade through these lists and record sometimes two or three dozen men from the same street who were never honoured for their contribution, for their lives. It is incredible that so many men could be lost from such a small but densely populated area, and even more so that so many could be simply forgotten and ignored. From Witham in the south, to Stoneferry a mile or so up Cleveland Street, and all the terraced streets in between, there are 370 such men in total - including the ones we always knew about. But our area was not unique in the respect of huge losses, most of the terraced streets of East Hull suffered likewise - I recall seeing a record of some 50 men just from Mersey Street, and other Hull streets fared just as bad ~ some worse! Some 7,500 Hull men from all over the city are recorded as having lost their lives in that four-year period, which puts our local numbers into a meaningful context.

When the peace came in 1918, just 100 years ago, the 'victory' must have seemed a very hollow one to the surviving parents, wives and children of the men who never came back. The area must have reeked death and loss and tremendous heartbreak such as just cannot be imagined now. Yes, there was the Blitz that came later, and these areas were heavily hit, by the way, with more visitations of tragedy, and yet more military losses of the Second War, but it was nothing on the scale of the appropriately titled 'Great War'. Great was the destruction, and killing, and in areas like this Great was the Grief and huge poverty and desolation that followed in the wake of so many able and working men being taken from their homes in the space of just three or four years never to return. Whether they were volunteers who wanted to help to put the bullying Kaiser back in his box, or reluctant conscripts who had no enthusiasm to fight, it's all of no consequence by the time of the armistice. War is war, and dead is dead, no matter the means or reasons of one's passing. In tightly knit areas like this, in cities all over the kingdom, the grief was all the same.

Of those that did return, many were injured enough never to be able to find meaningful work again, or were so badly damaged in their minds they ultimately took their own lives. A good many died before the next decade was out, of lung or bodily complications as a result their service to their king and country in the cause of freedom, and were never formally recognised as war casualties, which undoubtedly they were. The war supposedly finished in 1918, but the suffering went on a lot longer than that, and communities such as this were still reeling from the effects of war when, barely 21 years later . . . it all happened again. Against the same enemy, and for much the same reasons. When would it all end, they must have cried. Some of the sons of the men who had died in the Great War would go on to lose their lives in the Second. The very last of the widows of the Great War, many of which would never marry again, have only just died themselves in the past couple of years or so. Like the last soldier, the girls have all gone too. And so the repercussions of those great conflicts are with us still, seemingly never ending.

As complicated as it is, as hard to read as this poor map is, I hope this explains a little more about 'The Groves', especially to those not familiar with Hull, but have perhaps this one tenuous link in their family tree of a family who once lived here, and suffered as these people did in a way we cannot comprehend now. But we try.

To see an even more involved explanation (boredom warning here!),
and a better map, click HERE.


To view this map in higher definition, click the graphic below, press F11 to hide any toolbars, it will appear in glorious Full Screen. If you can see the faint white border all round, you have the full map. The original map is from www.old-maps.co.uk, and can be seen for free at their site. It's a bit of a twiddle to get them full screen, even to get the map you really want, but trust me, if you love maps, it's worth it. There's some more guidance below.

[ Press F11 again to get your toolbars back unharmed.
I hereby certify that no toolbars were harmed
in the writing of this discourse on The Groves].

                               
This Background Map      . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .       and another map to enjoy!
A good many of the men listed as previously missing from our war memorials
also came from the area to the north, in between The Groves and Stoneferry, known as Wilmington.
Dalton, Withernsea and Foster Streets had a lot more homes than the short street lengths would now
suggest, tiny back-to-back homes arranged into packed side terraces, that made for
back-to-back concentrated grief when the tragedies of WW1 struck. We remember them all.



The previous Old Wawne Background Map

If you scroll this box right up, dump the side menu, and use F11,
it's possible to see the maps Full Screen on 1366 x 768 displays,
even more so if you select to just view this frame, and lose the side menu.

If you like what you see here, and enjoy visiting our pages,
perhaps you would like to leave a comment in our Guestbook?

Do feel free to leave us a message in our Guestbook; see entries from all over the world


Here's a treat for railway historians, to see what part of
Hull's dock railways mapped like in 1928:
Click anywhere along this line to go to Old Maps
When it loads, the centre of your map will be 'blued'; that's the print area.
Click the buttons top right to turn the blue off, and make Full Screen.
You may have to Scroll Out three or four times for the free maps to appear.
Then just scroll around to your heart's content. Wow indeed!
By Golly, there weren't half some railway steels hereabouts!!
The bit you will be looking at is now Siemen's turbine blade factory.
If that view floats your boat, when it loads, drag the map over
the city well to the west and have a peep further up Hessle Rd way.
I admit, it is tricky navigating without a roller mouse, and almost
impossible on a smart phone - the site was made for PC screens.
But it can be done.

view Side Menu on the left if not already visible, for a lot more button links       Top              for tablet browsers, dump the Side Menu

View The Old Background Map - RAF station


Sutton & Wawne will Always Remember
. - -    . / . - -   . .    . - . .    . - . . / . - .    .    - -    .    - -    - . .    .    . - . / -    . . . .    .    - - /   


~ Sutton & Wawne Museum ~ inside The Old School ~ 25 Church St ~ Sutton on Hull ~ HU7 4TL ~
~ www.suttonandwawnemuseum.org.uk ~~ admin@suttonandwawnemuseum.org.uk ~






























































g1 ~~ g2 ~~ g3